I'm baffled... you wrote pretty much exactly my thoughts. I'm the same, I don't understand their hatred for Gates, Bezos and co. when these people are the poster children of the world they want to live in. There is only one thing where we might differ, I truly believe that Stone is an idiot. In his political videos he talks a looooot and burry us under tons of "facts" which makes it hard to follow him but, if you do, you will see that time and time again he says one thing in one part of the video and something else later that completely contradict what he said earlier, just like a 5 years old kid that has not yet learned how to build an argument. But he's not 5, he's an idiot.
At our very small rural farmers market we're about 40% hippy-commune-back-to-the-landers and 30% tin-foil-hat-bury-your-guns-preppers, a couple of folks in the middle (or enough sense to not say either way) and one amish.
And listen: I love a good tarot card reading and my moon sign is Aries, and if pressed I'd have to admit that my own tin hat tendencies veer more towards Area 51 than Antifa, BUT I believe scientists when they say climate change and COVID are real, dangerous, and fixable. And that's just where it gets really awkward and we've agreed to not talk about it at the market.
I think as farmers we tend to be rugged independent types with a lot of time to ourselves to think and ponder and sometimes we come up with some really strange theories.
Fantastic article! Next time I hit a farmer's market, I won't assume that all of the sellers are friendly Dems. Hard to imagine how a right leaning farmer can be both a Climate Change denier and an advocate for sustainable growing methods.
"The inherent contradiction between attitudes of pro-entrepreneurialism and disdain for our society’s most successful entrepreneurs is reconciled through an explanatory narrative of collusion between economic and political elites against the middle class of small business pioneers"
Just thought you might like to know that there is a specific term for this type of political philosophy: Producerism. See, for example, the Wikipedia article on the subject: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Producerism
A friend forwarded me this article. If you are up for having a dialogue (hopefully a public one) please send me an email. Perhaps we can both enlighten each other about our perspectives
This is a good read. Agriculture has always been a hotbed of right wing extremism. I can't tell you how many times I've been belittled for being female in farming. It's definitely spreading into permaculture more, but then it always has. Joel Stalatin said you have to look and act like the good ol boys to get them to embrace your kind of farming. Well... They did. And now those people are hot in a space full of marginalized groups.
Hi Luke, is there a way to reach you? I have some information you may find interesting that can help further inform this article you wrote back in 2021 and its too lengthy to get into here.
I've noticed in my decade working in organic agriculture that much of what motivates the loonier factions of the movement tend to be a mistrust of power. This is of course the basis of political debate. Who do you trust with the power in society? My armchair assessment is that, traditionally it was commercial power/traditional social structures that frieghtened the left and government/education/media power on the right. With the wealthy being sort of universally suspicious. As the internet has handed more power to social movements social power has become increasingly a tyranny to be opposed as well. The internet generally seems to be scrambling traditional power structures, certainly the traditional media holds less power. You can pick it all apart until you're blue in the face, but the common thread seems to be people feel powerless for one reason or another. Regardless of how people tend to frame their motivations, an effort to reclaim power seems to be at the root of much of the organic movement. Disagree as we may about the problem, organic ag provides a precieved answer.
Thanks for a well-written article that illustrates a bit of the complexity in interests, that can seem contradictory within the simplistic programmed set of ideas we can get lulled into. Lately I think the cardinal error is presumption based upon limited information. I'm not immune, and these can be hard ideas to shake; even though I appreciated the natural medicine, wholesome self-grown foods (and years of work in our 1-acre garden), and environmental concern of my parents (Prevention and Organic Gardening were always around from the '70s on), I always found their deep conservative values confusing in context. So when I read an article that unpacks another example of this, it helps broaden understanding and reinforces a bit of the live-and-let-live approach to dealing with people who differ with you on some touchy points.
The term libertarian now mostly gets used to describe the rightwing, freemarket-capitalistic (think hayek) and hyperindividualistic (think ayn rand) stance. However an important distinction to make is that there exist both left- and right-libertarians, and that the right - left axis provides the distinctive characterization, which many people often tend to forget. Political views can be placed on two axis, left - right (mostly about economic issues) and authoritarian - libertarian (mostly about social issues and questions of power). It is time to reclaim the term libertarian from the rightwing, because as Bookchin rightly pointed out rightwing libertarians should actually be called proprietarians, since property and freedom seem to be their main topics. Whereas left libertarians distrust state control on the grounds of equality, pluralism and multiculturality. https://vimeo.com/228159522
You are wrong when you state that homesteaders are climate change deniers. Just because most of these people don’t thing massive government spending and overreach should be used to improve the “climate,” doesn’t mean they don’t think something should be done. On the contrary these people are actually doing something about it. Many of these people are reversing desertification, and increasing carbon sequestration on their land. They are increasing water retention and restoring ecosystems by building soil. They are not screaming to the government to steal everyone’s money and do something about it. Why don’t some of you left wingers put your money where your mouth is and start improving your part of the earth. If everyone did, the problem would probably take care of itself.
Here's a hint: there are FAR more Right-leaning folks in the small-farm community than most of you realize. The organic movement has always been predominately headlined by Lefties, but there are many more on the Right who also don't want poisons sprayed on their food. They just go about it quietly, and do things a little differently than what we usually see in trendy magazines and web articles. We are very alarmed by what they see happening in DC over the last decade, and can see where this is going.... and we wont stay quiet anymore.
I'm baffled... you wrote pretty much exactly my thoughts. I'm the same, I don't understand their hatred for Gates, Bezos and co. when these people are the poster children of the world they want to live in. There is only one thing where we might differ, I truly believe that Stone is an idiot. In his political videos he talks a looooot and burry us under tons of "facts" which makes it hard to follow him but, if you do, you will see that time and time again he says one thing in one part of the video and something else later that completely contradict what he said earlier, just like a 5 years old kid that has not yet learned how to build an argument. But he's not 5, he's an idiot.
At our very small rural farmers market we're about 40% hippy-commune-back-to-the-landers and 30% tin-foil-hat-bury-your-guns-preppers, a couple of folks in the middle (or enough sense to not say either way) and one amish.
And listen: I love a good tarot card reading and my moon sign is Aries, and if pressed I'd have to admit that my own tin hat tendencies veer more towards Area 51 than Antifa, BUT I believe scientists when they say climate change and COVID are real, dangerous, and fixable. And that's just where it gets really awkward and we've agreed to not talk about it at the market.
I think as farmers we tend to be rugged independent types with a lot of time to ourselves to think and ponder and sometimes we come up with some really strange theories.
Thanks for this reflection. I appreciate you watching the you tubers because I wouldn't have the patience for the BS.
Interesting read, Luke. Too bad the admins in MGSG cut the comments short. Would've been fun to sift through the aftermath.
Fantastic article! Next time I hit a farmer's market, I won't assume that all of the sellers are friendly Dems. Hard to imagine how a right leaning farmer can be both a Climate Change denier and an advocate for sustainable growing methods.
This was great!
"The inherent contradiction between attitudes of pro-entrepreneurialism and disdain for our society’s most successful entrepreneurs is reconciled through an explanatory narrative of collusion between economic and political elites against the middle class of small business pioneers"
Just thought you might like to know that there is a specific term for this type of political philosophy: Producerism. See, for example, the Wikipedia article on the subject: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Producerism
Hey Luke
A friend forwarded me this article. If you are up for having a dialogue (hopefully a public one) please send me an email. Perhaps we can both enlighten each other about our perspectives
Take care,
Takota Coen
Thank you, Luke, for a very interesting piece. I'd like to share this with you and your readers:
https://truthout.org/articles/democracy-will-never-be-delivered-from-above-it-must-be-built-from-below/
This is a good read. Agriculture has always been a hotbed of right wing extremism. I can't tell you how many times I've been belittled for being female in farming. It's definitely spreading into permaculture more, but then it always has. Joel Stalatin said you have to look and act like the good ol boys to get them to embrace your kind of farming. Well... They did. And now those people are hot in a space full of marginalized groups.
Hi Luke, is there a way to reach you? I have some information you may find interesting that can help further inform this article you wrote back in 2021 and its too lengthy to get into here.
I've noticed in my decade working in organic agriculture that much of what motivates the loonier factions of the movement tend to be a mistrust of power. This is of course the basis of political debate. Who do you trust with the power in society? My armchair assessment is that, traditionally it was commercial power/traditional social structures that frieghtened the left and government/education/media power on the right. With the wealthy being sort of universally suspicious. As the internet has handed more power to social movements social power has become increasingly a tyranny to be opposed as well. The internet generally seems to be scrambling traditional power structures, certainly the traditional media holds less power. You can pick it all apart until you're blue in the face, but the common thread seems to be people feel powerless for one reason or another. Regardless of how people tend to frame their motivations, an effort to reclaim power seems to be at the root of much of the organic movement. Disagree as we may about the problem, organic ag provides a precieved answer.
Thanks for a well-written article that illustrates a bit of the complexity in interests, that can seem contradictory within the simplistic programmed set of ideas we can get lulled into. Lately I think the cardinal error is presumption based upon limited information. I'm not immune, and these can be hard ideas to shake; even though I appreciated the natural medicine, wholesome self-grown foods (and years of work in our 1-acre garden), and environmental concern of my parents (Prevention and Organic Gardening were always around from the '70s on), I always found their deep conservative values confusing in context. So when I read an article that unpacks another example of this, it helps broaden understanding and reinforces a bit of the live-and-let-live approach to dealing with people who differ with you on some touchy points.
The term libertarian now mostly gets used to describe the rightwing, freemarket-capitalistic (think hayek) and hyperindividualistic (think ayn rand) stance. However an important distinction to make is that there exist both left- and right-libertarians, and that the right - left axis provides the distinctive characterization, which many people often tend to forget. Political views can be placed on two axis, left - right (mostly about economic issues) and authoritarian - libertarian (mostly about social issues and questions of power). It is time to reclaim the term libertarian from the rightwing, because as Bookchin rightly pointed out rightwing libertarians should actually be called proprietarians, since property and freedom seem to be their main topics. Whereas left libertarians distrust state control on the grounds of equality, pluralism and multiculturality. https://vimeo.com/228159522
You are wrong when you state that homesteaders are climate change deniers. Just because most of these people don’t thing massive government spending and overreach should be used to improve the “climate,” doesn’t mean they don’t think something should be done. On the contrary these people are actually doing something about it. Many of these people are reversing desertification, and increasing carbon sequestration on their land. They are increasing water retention and restoring ecosystems by building soil. They are not screaming to the government to steal everyone’s money and do something about it. Why don’t some of you left wingers put your money where your mouth is and start improving your part of the earth. If everyone did, the problem would probably take care of itself.
Here's a hint: there are FAR more Right-leaning folks in the small-farm community than most of you realize. The organic movement has always been predominately headlined by Lefties, but there are many more on the Right who also don't want poisons sprayed on their food. They just go about it quietly, and do things a little differently than what we usually see in trendy magazines and web articles. We are very alarmed by what they see happening in DC over the last decade, and can see where this is going.... and we wont stay quiet anymore.